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Any plan for a desktop patch creator?

This may be a wildly inappropriate request, but I’m just curious if this is being considered? the 301 is really amazing, and making complex patches is so great. I get lost in the subpatches, and if I have a specific idea I want to generate it becomes pretty crazy. It would be amazing to be able to visualize and even create complete patches on a desktop and then save them on to the SD card…

You can code bespoke units in lua, and you can do so with a simple text editor on your laptop, but that’s not for everyone. I can imagine it should be possible to make some sort of “click monkey” version of the SDK and yes that would be very, very cool. But also very, very complicated and time consuming for anyone to put together, and until version 1 of the firmware an endeavor like this would just be plain madness. I’m making these statements based on meticulous analysis of an assortment of wild assumptions.

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I know nothing of lua. I have basic PHP and C++ understanding when I need to hack something together, but definitely not at a point where I want to mess with DSP stuff. I am only at the beginning of learning the 301 as it is now. I’m mainly wondering if there are thoughts of a patch creator that use the built in core components that exist. With that said, I understand this is a fast moving train and that a request like this would probably fall in the realm of wishful thinking.

If I may believe some of the pioneers of bespoke lua unit developers such as @Joe and @anon83620728 your knowledge should be sufficient to build units in lua if you take some time to learn the syntax and study some examples, but I totally understand if that’s not your idea of a fun time. It could be though! And there is no need to get into DSP by the way, I’m not even sure if you can with the current state of the Middle Layer SDK. You just piece existing units together much like you do on the screen of the ER-301, but in a code editor. I have been wanting to get into it for a while now but other stuff keeps bumping that project from the list of priorities in my life.

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Oh cool! I will look in to it.

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I would recommend learning the UI layer well as a foundation. After you have a good grip on all the built in units and how routing works, the Middle Layer will be a lot easier to understand.

@Bparticle is right, though, you don’t create new DSP in the middle layer. it’s a patching layer for instantiating and connecting existing DSP objects, all of which are currently built in objects authored by Brian. That said, there’s quite a bit there to play with already.

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DSP Object = Unit? Or DSP Object = component that is part of a unit?

The latter. In the middle layer, you are building Units, which will appear on the insert menu. Units are comprised of one or more DSP objects (and controls).

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ok-That’s what I was thinking. Thanks!

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Personally, I am rather suspicious of the idea because from a user’s perspective the computer is like a black hole sucking everything in and making everything else subservient to it.

That being said, from a developer’s perpsective, I would eventually like to have an emulation running on the desktop BUT as hinted its main purpose will be assisting people working with lower layer (C++) and middle layer (lua) SDKs. Note that this is pretty different from the goal of a desktop patch creator. For one, in an emulation, the ER-301 firmware would be executing on the desktop, displaying the same UI and requiring the user to interact with it in pretty much the same way (one knob + bunch of buttons + 2 screens, etc.). This is a necessary property from the point of view of a developer trying to test her code.

Furthermore, I would ask anyone that is really keen on this idea to consider this: The desktop patch creator that doesn’t “fight” with the ER-301 concept, prevents the computer from infecting the entire creative process, and is in line with my plans is the Middle Layer. The mental shift required is simply to think of the patch that you want to create on the computer as being encapsulated as a unit and then brought over to the ER-301 as such. Not to mention that the most flexible and succinct way to specify an arbitrary patch (= DSP+UI) is via text especially when you have a QWERTY keyboard sitting in front of you.

So, to conclude, in an ideal realization of my goal, a user would be happily patching away on the ER-301 until at some point they hit a wall where they feel that they can no longer interact comfortably with the increased complexity through the ER-301 UI. At this point they would start thinking about implementing the patch (or key parts thereof) in the Middle Layer as a unit thus simplifying their overall patch. This encourages good patch design and has two side benefits: (1) your work will be reusable in other patches, and (2) the Middle Layer implementation usually always allows for more efficient CPU usage.

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This is why I own an ER-301 and only use my computer as a multi-track recorder now. :fist_right:

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I suppose that is a matter of opinion. For me personally, I have been loving my more recent work of having a computer running Ableton and doing almost everything exclusively with hardware controlling the computer. I come from a history of live instruments in live bands, so from the beginning where I started incorporating computers for synths and visuals, etc, I always made sure that the computer click and clock, etc, was slaved to a controller that I was in charge of instead of being a slave to the computer.

I’m all about finding the fastest and most efficient way to get an idea out of my head and in to the real world, and so if it’s hardware, a computer, or pen and paper, I’ll try and find the best tool. That was my thinking with this. Navigating through nested subpatches that you can no longer visualize when you are deep means that I have to try and keep that info stored in the RAM of my brain as I’m building a patch-which I find can get challenging. Having a sheet of paper and pen as I’m building the patch helps, but that was my main thought-having a way to literally see the whole patch seems like it would be super cool. Sort of like Reaktor. I think the idea of the Middle Layer and the idea of patching in Reaktor sound similar from what I can tell (except there isn’t a GUI for the Middle Layer).

I’m still a baby on the 301, so don’t take my musings to imply any sort of authority or demand-mainly thinking out loud about it. I look forward to learning more about the middle layer once I have a stronger grasp of the core components of the 301.

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@mbirame, have you checked out the new scope view mode for navigating patches? It’s a way to not only get a fast overview of nested units (which you can traverse both breadth and depth first with the big parameter knob), but when you navigate through to a part of your patch and then flip out of scope mode, you are dropped into that part of your patch - very handy !

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Not yet! So much to learn!

absolutely second that. @mbirame: you’ll find that the scope mode is really useful to navigate complex patches with many nested levels. you can switch to scope, browse the patch, find the spot you want to teleport to, switch back to normal edit mode and YAY you’r there :slight_smile:
trust me, just give this little jewel some time to make friends with you and you’ll love the UI and forget about wanting a computer based editor :slight_smile:

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Oh cool! I didn’t know of this. This will be super handy. I’ve been running the other firmware due to a couple of live shows I had. None using the ER-301 coming up so it might be time to upgrade! Plus I have a 16n Faderbank in the post, ready to hook up to the ER-301. Can’t wait!

I would still love to be able to have a usb connection to the computer with dedicated editor for the 301. I understand this defeats the purpose partially of having a module and doing everything on there but for some patches this would be extremely helpful compared to a text editor (which is fantastic as well!)

Also a usb being able to possibly transfer midi i/o would be amazing!

I can dream!

I’m sorry, but I really don’t understand the urge for a desktop editor for a modular platform.