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Breakbeat functionality of Sample units (Looping the end of a slice in reverse)

I’ve seen this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPYg59BRgI0
and was wondering if anything similar is possible with one of the ER301 sampleplayer units. ‘‘FANU’’ talks at minute 6:00 about how he uses saples slices without time streching to not loose too much of sound quality in his breaks, to fill the gaps when he slows down the break he utilises the samplers looping function. Ableton sampler then loops only a defined area at the end of a slice and this in reverse. the result sounds great. i was wondering if this is possible with the er301 if not @odevices i would love to see this in a future firmwareversion. :star_struck: :star_struck: :star_struck:
cheers

hello, just another perspective:
the author of the video almost certainly refers to ableton’s “warp” when talking about timestretch.
i always, like him, avoid warping breakbeats because that introduces very bad audio artifacts.
but if you change the playback speed of a sample you are neither warping nor timestretching, you just read it at another speed.
this doesnt produce transient smashing or other bothering artifacts, just a pitch change.

so i suggest you ignore this looping thing and just use the clocked sample player so the breakbeat will always play synced to your clock , never having any “gap”, but will smoothly change pitch and duration when you change speed.

this is also possible in ableton if one uses the “repitch” warp algorithm.
keep also in mind that the “flavour” of old school “chopped” breakbeat based music (be it hip hop or house or jungle) derived exactly from “pitching” the samples to fit the duration needed, because no warp was available at the time. so you get those high pitched stingy breaks in jungle and old school d’n’b or those grainy bass heavy beats in old school hip hop…
just my 2 cents.

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As for breakbeat land I would agree that we have plenty of very fine sounding sample and grain engines that can do loads of fantastic things. Some might be even beyond the capabilities of live, I guess. But since the er301 I’ve been away from Ableton for quite some time, so who am I to …

However I find that “reverse loop” effect Quite intriguing! Especially when we would leave breakbeat land (which I also love) and carry that thing to foreign countries… And I tried to achieve it yesterday but failed.

As I understand it this wouldn’t loop a certain part in reverse but rather scratch it back and forth. Now I’m thinking of feeding those engines that have speed parameter with delayed modulation. I.e. the same gate/trigger that is starting a slice would feed Into a subchain of the speed parameter containing a Vca-Ed mod source That can be delayed.

So when the slice starts it would play with speed=1.
But you could set a delay time after which a modulation would kick in to Turn the speed parameter To -1.
Now that mod source could be periodic. E.g. a pulse wave that would switch between 2 speeds and the frequency of that wave would determine the ping pong loop Length.

This method would not necessarily loop at the end of the slice, for which I still haven’t found a solution for…

EDIT: my first experiments look promising. though i’m still struggling with its maths and logics…

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i always used the varispeed player and calculated the time of the sample to my bpm. (oldschool way) worked super fine. But i am still very impressed what flavor the looopy thing adds to the break it somehow gives some magic flow i would love to be able to use on my er301. super happy this is getting a how to make drumbreaks on the er301 discussion even tho I have read here in the forum a few things about breaks allready. cheers guys.

EDIT: i tried also the clocked player yesterday and was happy with the result. still its different.
delaying the gate sounds super promising will wrap my head also arround it.

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delayed pingpong looper.unit (18.4 KB)

really guys, neither this unit nor its documentation is anywhere near what
they should be. just have not enough time to do it the right way. but before
it gets burried under life and stuff i want to share it in its raw and current state.
the recipe below is probably flawed. and i’m almost sure that there is a more
elegant solution to all of this. please, let me, and let us know!

------ prerequisites:

  • firmware version: 0.5.01 (or higher)
  • this will need @Joe’s Accents.
  • it is using i2c faders, which you can replace with regular cv-ins
    or just set manually in the top level custom ui.
  • this is a custom scource unit that you can insert anywhere in any stereo output chain.
    but i prefer to set it up in a global chain, so i can use it on several output chains
    at the same time. think external aux FX or dry sound mixed with further internal FX
    or what not.
  • at some steps of the recipe you’ll have to create additional global chains or
    set the inputs directly…

---------- recipe:

  • take a varispeedplayer in a global chain
  • select a samplechain or ordinary loop for it
  • slice it up to your tasting. you can slice it to individual beat hits for
    the requested effect. but you can do experiments at this editing level, too…
  • set the varispeedplayer to repeat and cue modes. you can choose slice for
    play extent, too. but i prefer cue for those more experimental results that go
    beyond the requested clever breakbeat scratch effect…
  • set the gate input of the player to the gate that you want to use to trigger the slices.
    i created a global gate input for it for two reasons. first, we’ll need that gate
    in different places. second, this gives me a good central place to mess with the incoming gate
    signal globally. each experiment i put it through will affect all units that are using it…
    (i’ll do the same with a global sequencer clock…)
  • enter speed parameter and set gain=2 with bias=1x
  • enter subchain of speed parameter
  • set its chain input (most left) to a global clock that corresponds to the tempo
    of the song (NOT the tempo of the sliced loop in question). i usually inject a clock
    from an external sequencer through the D3 cv-in as a global chain, so i can use it
    everywhere i want.
  • insert a clock (BPM) module and set its bpm to the tempo of your song (or half or double). with the default
    width of 0.5 this will produce the pulse we’ll need to alternate the speed para between 1 and -1 in a synced manner.
    with the mult and div paras of this unit you will be able to have quite some fun!
    which is why i brought them up as manual faders to the ui of the custom unit…
  • insert an offset unit after the clock (BPM) with bias=-1
  • insert a linear unipolar vca after the offset. set its gain=-2 and bias=1.
  • enter the subchain of that vca
  • set the subchain input to the same global gate source we used for the player gate input
  • insert a timed gate (accents unit) in that subchain. its coarse and fine tuning will set the delay after which
    the player will do its pingpong thing. it’s linked to the custom unit ui as faders. and should yield the desired
    breakbeat tail-swoop if set to shorter than the slice and before the next gate hits the player.
    (having cue mode by default the scratchmaster can jump in whereever you want, even beyond the requested end of slice :wink: )
  • leave the vca subchain, one level up back to the subchain of the speed para.
  • i added a slew limiter after the vca (with the timed gate in it) which can be set to smooth the transition between
    forward and backward movement of the “playhead”. set it to taste or bring its setting up to the top ui of the custom unit…
  • obviously you’ll want to alter the slice parameter of the player. i guess i’ll add another i2c fader to it…

try to have fun and post your results here, please! i’m curious.
try to improve the current state of the unit, too.
and let me know what’s unclear…

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genious ! tried the unit today and slowly get a feeling for it.