Default sample speed of 1 please? - Implemented

The default sample speed is 0 currently, which leads to (IMO) some unnecessary mental overhead and time to perform the step of navigating to the Sample Player’s “menu” → “speed” parameter and scroll it from 0 to something > 0 (and probably 1) to get any sound. Is there any reason for this that I’m not thinking of? It seems like a safe assumption that if someone assigns a sample to a sample player that they would want it to play back at default speed upon being triggered without further configuration.

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I too have been curious about this…maybe it can be in the settings?

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Would be great to have this as a choose able option in the settings

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Since both replies so far suggest this as a configurable option, could someone help me understand the value of a 0 speed default? When do you find it useful to have no sound on trigger when first loading a sample? Is it because you might want to load a sample and change some other settings while an active gate is present before finally changing the value of “tune” essentially using as an “unmute” after other things are configured? If so, another workflow would be to simply not assign a trigger to the sample until you want it to sound. I’m suggesting because I don’t see the value of this as a config option, but rather think that the 1-value tune by default should be the single, hardcoded way of things.

Yes please! And a default of 1 for mixers?

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This confused me for at least an hour when I first got the module. I managed to miss the moment in Brian’s video where he set it. Boy was that frustrating. I would also it be set to 1 by default.

All of these things, are probably because of my personal preference :smile_cat:

Why I felt it was natural to have speed start at zero:

  • I like the sound of something coming up to speed
  • I don’t think of the speed parameter as a set-and-forget parameter, nor do I think of it as a modulate around 1 type of parameter. I prefer to feed it an envelope that is triggered at the same time as the player unit.
  • I generally prefer a unit to be silent when I insert it and then “bring it in” in the way that I prefer. Same goes for the mixer.
  • In general, I suspect that this kind of thinking on my part is heavily influenced by live coding performances where the “bringing up” is part of the performance.

However, this is all moot because I think there is way to let us have our cake and eat it too without having a lot of configuration settings. This whole discussion is also just another symptom of having only one kind of sample player unit that is trying to satisfy a wide range of musical styles. That needs to change.

Anyway, what I will do is this:

Add a “Save Template Preset” option to all of the unit menus. Then you can set up each unit how you want it to load by default, press “Save Template Preset” and then from that point on when you insert a new unit it will come up loaded with your template preset. These template presets will be saved in the system area on the rear SD card so that they persist even if you change the front SD card. In other words, the same persistence behavior as the admin settings.

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I’ve definitely sensed this!

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Yup! Default Mixer → Gain = 0db would be the way I think most people would want it. I think of this as a box to put sounds into. For the default for this box to not output sound I think will make more people than not scratch their heads a bit at least.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

To venture with you into the music-creation philosophy territory. From watching videos, reading responses and now thankfully trying it on my own, there seems to be a few moments of onboarding with this machine that give people that unwanted experience of sitting there wondering why no sound is happening from their new toy, rather than just immediately clicking and having a ball. I actually think most of these moments are ultimately due to the silent-preset preference that you’ve built in, which is of course a valid approach and philosophy, but I think is counter to the majority of music makers’ expectations. In particular with samplers, I think there is a strong case for a sample player to simply play back the sample that’s been chosen at its default speed. 1) Every traditional “sampler” (one with pads and some kind of file browser) has a workflow where the user picks the sample, hits the pad, and hears a sound. So there is a strongly established convention in the domain. 2) I don’t think this is by accident! :wink: This approach seems more intuitive (pick sound, play sound, adjust from the basic starting sound by molding into some new sound by ear), but also simply requires less interaction to get sound, which I think is one of the only non-opinion/philosophy measures here. If the default is essentially sound-off with several of these units (mixer, adsr, sampler), you do gain the build-from-the-ground-up philosophy of working that you’re familiar with and fond of, but you also gain (I think in all cases?) two button presses and some finicky knob scrolling to get where I would argue most would like to start, if only based on conditioning from other products. This alone seems like enough for me to push the otherwise opinion-based arbitrary choice strongly to one side.

To push the choice over the edge, and most importantly, I really just believe the no-sound default will turn some people off. It introduces friction of the worst kind (no sound?! wat?!) into peoples’ initial experience, as well as the worst kind (sigh… click, click, click, turn, turn) continuous friction for pro-users (addressed by the “Save Template Preset” idea, albeit with more click-click :wink: )

All this is to say that while the “Save Template Preset” option will be killer, very welcome and natural, I still would really urge that in addition to this rad feature, the built-in defaults be ones that make the sounds most people are expecting and indicating through their prior actions of selecting a sample player, loading a sample, etc.

Also, want to say I get and respect the desire of wanting to push the “build from clay” approach of sculpture vs the “carve away from some other object” approach :slight_smile:

And thank you for the passionate feedback! :heart_eyes:

Unfortunately, I had to gloss over the parts where you argued for the voiceless majority or assumed tradition implied validity :smiling_imp:. Just your singular experience and opinion is enough for me, khiner. I will gladly make a design change for one user! A recount of your experience and how it made you feel already has tremendous weight with me and any armchair analysis of majority opinion will just create more work for me as I try to sift through the feedback looking for the essence. :smile_cat:

My previous post was not meant as an argument for why the defaults should stay the way they are. I just wanted to put out there where I was coming from just in case anyone was interested. Haha, especially since most of the time when users find some weird head-scratching behavior, it turns out I just haven’t gotten around to doing it properly yet.

So to get back to defaults, I will gladly make the specific changes that were asked for in this thread. I also expect we will waffle on defaults for awhile yet but hopefully the templates will shield most from the havoc.

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I feel the same way about mixers and vcas - I’m always grabbing them and putting them up to or close nominal when getting going on patches. This template idea would be great! Although, could this same idea instead be accomplished with the existing preferences in the admin area, avoiding having to save and deal with additional setup files?

IE:
Default mixer level: off, -6db, 0
Default VCA gain: 0, 1
Default sample player speed: 0, 1
Default source gain on a control: 0, 1

It’s these little unit adjustments that really start to add up to thousands of repetitive key or encoder moves over time. Since everyone works differently, a global setting could be an ideal method of catering to various flavors of waffles (imho) :slight_smile:

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The template idea involves no files that user needs to be aware of because it would reside with the admin settings. I’m gravitating towards templates because the unit’s themselves already provide a good interface for specifying their defaults. Creating and maintaining another interface in the settings screen for unit defaults sounds messy to me at this point but I could be wrong.

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Ah gotcha. Onwards with templates! :heart_eyes:

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I fully approve of the idea of templates!

Less sure about the no-sound default turning people off, I mean it’s not like users of this gear are clueless idiots or anything :wink:

Just sayin hehe… we’re getting templates so all is wonderful and awesome!!

p.s. there’s also a fairly good argument for anything that makes users go ‘wait?what?’ and enter that highly inquisitive mind state where there is a problem to be solved is a good thing, especially with a module like this where experimentation and configuration are king.

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Representing the clueless idiots (which I’m seriously in the camp of) I agree with Kel - serious users know where to look to deal with the unknowns. Those of us who are still green regarding modular are lost on mostly everything and the no-sound default is hardly an issue. As I emerge from the wilderness of waffleness I’m guided by the likes of @vcoadsr and @NeilParfitt who obviously have this stuff dialed in and are dropping huge enlightenment on the uninitiated…add to that Brian’s thoughtful and calm delivery and this forum has been part of my personal template for learning how the 301 works. If management says templates, I’m certain they will be the best templates ever…until he rewrites them.

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Just to say clueless idiot is a bit harsh, you can’t be that clueless as you have an ER-301 :smiley: I understand what you’re saying though!

As I understand it the templates system will be largely invisible and simply one more option on the main menu that says “Save as default” - super simple and immensely powerful and perfectly easy to return to the default settings if you so wish.

I’m not kidding @anon83620728 I’m confronted with my shortcoming everyday by my encounter with modular. I don’t lament it…I embrace the challenge to be challenged. To be 54 years old and have encountered a puzzle that is simultaneously intensely complex but incredibly fun let’s me embrace my inner-idiot and revel in the fact I’m so fortunate as to not shy away from things that are hard.

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Hehe ok :wink: but I’d still argue that the very fact that you are challenging yourself like this makes it very clear to me that you not a clueless idiot!

One day you will look back on this and realise actually it’s not that hard, or at least only hard in the sense that you don’t know how to do it yet. It’s a bit like riding a bike, once you ‘get it’ you will have it forever :slight_smile:

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Not sure if you’ve been exposed to this but I can’t recommend highly enough getting hold of this book:

Allen Strange - Electronic Music (2nd edition)

If you do a search you should find a PDF version - worth the hunt. Trying to get a physical copy will cost you $$.

I repeat read it about once a year - I’ve learnt a lot from it & learn a little more every time as my experience grows and understand modular better, even now after nearly 8 years. The exercises are great too - I did a section of them & put my results on tumblr: http://vcoadsr.tumblr.com/post/99336654833/allen-strange-electronic-music-chapters-1-4

I think you will be able to implement a lot of the ideas in this book in the ER301.

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