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Envelope attack curve problem


#1

I am trying to create a synth patch that has a swell at the start.
Problem I am having is no matter what time I set the attack to, its too loud meaning I can’t get a nice swell because the range from silence to full is not enough!
On the meter for that mixer it shows that the level is starting from zero but the actual sound isn’t.
Even with the gain setting from the ADSR to the VCA at 5 the start of the sound is too loud, it sounds like its starting from half full volume instead of silence.
Is there a solution to this? Any advice?
Thanks!


#2

i wonder if this is a linear vs log VCA type issue? I think the current VCA is linear.


#3

Is there a way to change it?
I can create the exact curve I want in Kontakt but fail to get close to it in the 301


#4

Are the linear vs exponential VCA differences explained in this thread of any use to you in your situation? (sorry if I’ve misunderstood your question)

Are you using linear or rational ADSR?

I have no problem with an ADSR modulating either linear or rational VCA’s in the manner I think you are describing and making gentle swells,


#5

I’m on the latest firmware but can only find one type of ADSR? How are you changing between the two types? Maybe this is the solution? Thanks!


#6

The short answer is “No, not yet”.

The current ADSR only does this at the moment:

Attack: concave up
Decay: convex down
Sustain: flat
Release: convex down

(Concave is shaped like a cave. Convex is like a bowl.)

download
(Image Source)

I’m guessing that you want “convex up” for the Attack portion. Like this Kontakt screenshot I got online :

download
(Image Source)


#7

@NeilParfitt makes a good point. In general, you can achieve various curve shapes either at the VCA or at the envelope. I hope to have various VCA response curves as well as envelope shapes available in the ER-301.


#8

Hi Brian

Thanks for detailed explanation!
The screen shot is pretty much how I have the setting in Kontakt that I want to acheive!
Any rough idea of when this type of envelope will be available?


#9

Don’t forget you can use an audio file as an Envelope, and use the sample player to control a VCA! The speed or pitch of the of the sample would be the speed of the envelope shape. It wont have precise control over the DS stages… but depending on the type of sound it can still work great, especially pads.

You’d just need to make some CV audio using ie: the DC plug-in expert sleepers. But… CAREFUL with your speakers as DC can blow the coils.

Alternately… you can record some CV with the 6 track recording using an ADSR somewhere else in you modular - and then use that for the sample player.


#10

Thanks for the idea, Neil I’ll give it a shot!


#11

Sorry @sunshinelover, I didn’t even see I’d written ADSR, I meant VCA! The intention was to clarify, rather than muddy the waters!


#12

I think it is reasonable to assume that it will happen in the next 2-4 weeks. :wink:


#13

Ace! Thanks Brian


#14

No worries, there’s been quite a lot of new functionality added in V0.3 so I thought that I was missing something!


#15

Wohooooo! Yeah!
Looking forward to make more drum sounds…!

Will you also make a simple AD envelope?
Much nicer than those adsr…


#16

You can modify the shape of the envelope somewhat using feedback, dedicate a global chain for your envelope. It works quite nicely :slight_smile:

Also, AD type envelopes may be enjoyed by ignoring the R portion, setting S to 1 and sending very short triggers to the ADSR envelope. Adjust AR to taste.


#17

Thanks @kel for that link, that’s very helpful. I’ll need to process that in practice when I’m back at the ER-301 but good to know the global chain method mentioned in that linked thread.


#18

:exploding_head:


#19

Indeed.

Does anyone know of any resources of audio files that could work as CV envelopes? I’m thinking of something along the lines of the Adventure Kid single cycle waveforms but for envelopes instead of wavetables.


#20

In that scenario am I correct in thinking that one would use the single cycle waveform in a sample player nested beneath the VCA level control with an external trigger to trigger sample player…and if so then one would look for an exponential or logarithmic single cycle to achieve desired effect?