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Is it possible to recreate Terry Riley's In C?


#1

Hello; i’ve read the manuals and i just want to ask if what i think is how this work in real life.

Let’s say i input Terry Riley’s “IN C” on 3 tracks, and some other stuff on 4th (but also in C)

  1. Can i shift the enitre track? Lets say i “upload” the In C to track 1 2 and 3 and want to have a 16 and 32 bar shift on track 2 and 3.

  2. if above is possible then what i would do is cut and loop it into Parts - from what i understood each part can hold all the important data for 4 tracks of the 101?

  3. then by using something like a Planar i can change parts on the fly and activate them via push of the button and they’ll be cued after the previous part ends? Do i need another control for reset? Is there any way to control parts of each track separately?

In C has 53 parts/tracks in different lenght. Can different tracks have their own looping points and be switched globaly via parts intput? Like:

Track 1 is looping “in C” pattern #4
Track 2 is looping “in C” pattern #7
Track 3 is looping “in C” pattern #23
This is saved as a “Part 01” in 102
Than “Part 02” has different “In C” patterns and so on and so on.
If the looping “in C” patterns are different lenght how will the switch work? (where will it cut to next part?)

  1. Can i use another offset to transpose/quantise it in real time live ? Everything is in C but in time it can change to a different scale, or do i need something like a sinfonion / addac quantizer etc for this function?

  2. is there any “easy” setup for “chords” inside 101-102? or again i’d need sinfonion / addac quantizer and just otuput one Gate (CV-B ?) to trigger the cords, and another CV-B to cord progression?

Would love to try make a live In-C modular performance that mutates over time.

  • given the melodies that are inside in-C + transposing it to different scales would mean essencially infinite melody with parts.

The concept of what im trying to do is here :slight_smile: :
http://www.mtrs.co.uk/subscriptions/Downloads/minimalism_OK/in_C.pdf
@odevices


#2

I’ve done my best to answer your questions below.

If you mean rotating the pattern then see the chapter called ROTOINVERSION in the ER-102 manual. If you mean delaying the track and thus lengthening it by the amount delayed then you would insert a rest at the front of the track which is described in the ER-101 manual.

Yes, that is the basic idea. More accurately stated would be that each part holds data for the where the loop start, loop end and reset-to steps are for each of the 4 tracks. This is described in detail in the PARTS chapter of the ER-102 manual.

Yes. This is shown in the PARTS video using a Pressure Points instead of a Planar joystick.

No but you can if you want to have the transition happen sooner.

Each part dictates the looping and reset behavior of all 4 tracks. If you want to change the behavior for just one track, copy the part and change the loop and reset-to steps for that one track.

Same question again? :thinking: The answer is yes, that is exactly how parts are used…

This is explained in the Transitions section of the PARTS chapter in the ER-102 manual. There are a few behaviors to choose from using the TRANSITION switch.

Yes.

Non-destructively: Use the GROUP MODIFIERS along the with any of the 3 CV mod inputs. You can add (or subtract) a scaled amount the CV input to (or from) any of the 4 step parameters (CV-A, CV-B, GATE, DURATION). See the Modifiers section of the GROUPS chapter in the ER-102 manual.

Destructively: Use the alter recording mode. See the Alter Mode section of the RECORDING chapter in the ER-102 manual.

The ER-102 will transpose by pitch interval (if using 12ET voltage table) and transpose by scale degree (for 12TET and other tables, also called modal transposition I think) according to an external signal but it will not change voltage tables (i.e. sequence of pitch intervals) on external signal. That is a manual operation.

No special UI has been created for chords. You can create chords of course but you will need to bring your own knowledge of harmony and counterpoint to the problem.

Sorry. I’m not familiar with these two modules. :bowing_man:


#3

So now a question for you. Obviously, the ER-101 and ER-102 manual completely failed to help you because I think all of your questions are answered in the manuals one way or the other. Do you have any hints or suggestions as to why the manuals failed you? :scream:


#4

<3 thank you very much @odevices, everything is much clearer now.

So if i have a part one with 1 2 3 4 and part two with 5 2 3 7, the 2 and 3 will stay looping each other and only 1 will change to 5 and 4 will change to 7 ? Thats superbly powerful.


#5

Yes, that is correct.


#6

Damn man, the more i read/watch the more amazed i am that you came up with all that. Im UX designer myself, and the logic you use for them buttons/functions is pristine.


#7

That is very kind of you to say :blush:

I can’t claim that any of this was “designed” though. As anyone who has used the ER-101 back when it first came out in 2013 they will know that the current ER-101/102 ecosystem was grown and renovated piece by piece, much like your grandparent’s old house in the country-side. :laughing: The local villagers helped a lot too.


#8

I’ll be very honest here and ask straightforward (because i think its fair) - if i want 8 tracks of this goodness i need 2 sets of 101-102. Thats expensive (not unworthy, by all means! just a tad expensive.) Do you have any plans or maybe can the community “vote” :smiley: for an 101/102 expander for another 4 tracks? is this even possible given the specs/architecture? Or are you just 100% done with it and don’t want to reopen the “box”. from what i read i feel like 75-80% of users here would love 4 more tracks for lets say half or 60% the price of the original box : ) (i know im being a bit cheap :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: sorry.) Aside from the price point there is also very, very important HP save (we all know the struggle).


#9

It’s not a closed box to me, but…

The current bottleneck is RAM. The 4 tracks (along with their shadow copies for HOLD mode), parts and groups consume all the available working RAM at the moment. On the positive side, the ER-102 was designed to allow easy replacement of its CPU board. However, I wouldn’t dream of doing that until the ER-301 was developed well past v1.0 of its firmware.


#10

Understood. It’s great that there is a possibility for this in the future : ) TYVM and have a great day.


#11

Ah i forgot to answer your question about maunal - it is very technical in language in my opinion it lacks simple abstract examples/explanations that user can put live…

For example what i wrote could be included in parts section:
"Let’s say you have a 4 track song with different patterns. Lets name the patterns with numbers 1 to 8. 1 & 2 track 1, 3 & 4 track 2 etc. With Parts feature you can make different combinations of looping patterns in that way:
Part one : 1 2 3 4, Part two : 5 2 3 7. The 2 and 3 will stay the same (looping) the 5 and 7 will change. You can now image the possibilities of this feature.

And so on. Like Real Life Examples :slight_smile: “for dummies”. You know i don’t have the modules at hands and maybe thats why it did not click in my head. i think users that have them at hands can deal with this manual.

EDIT : to sum up i think the manual is geared into “how to operate” the unit, which it should; but for potencial buyer the operation/diagrams are confusing and he would like to know if what he “thinks” can be “done”. Hence very simple examples of the possibilities.

For the Parts part that would be like another column in the manual “What’s possible:” with previous description.

@odevices


#12

I think an example based manual for dummies is an excellent idea!


#13

Kind of like divide and conquer “tasks” based manual, tripped to bits and based on real life usage. I’d love the video series in a same manner as its done for 301 by one user here @NeilParfitt :)). When i manage to get my hands of the O|D combo myself i’ll make them if nothing comes up till then :stuck_out_tongue: for learning purposes.

There are some examples from the top of my head : setting CV-B to triggers for drums, making a pattern-based song with offsets to play it live and later adding another group offset to modulate pitch/duration here and there etc ; ).

I feel like 101/102 needs just 2xPlanars or 1xPlanar + qubit Trigger to be 100% jammable for live performacne; but getting that from a few videos and re-reading manuals im just like 80% sure :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


#14

+1 for this


#15

@brownshoesonly did you guys use any euro when you did in c awhile back?