Off-topic: mixers & interfaces

#1

dear all,
posted this question on lines, too – hope it’s ok to address this here as it has little to do with the ER-301, but all my research so far has led to nothing and i’m desperate for help :slight_smile:

i’m looking to buy a (12-)16 channel mixer with an integrated interface for multitracking on my mac. both doesn’t require to be high-end and for now i don’t care about it being a digital or analog desk.

i would how ever love to see it not being super-giant – currently have a behringer X32 rack, which i do like the size and functionality of, but not so much controlling it with a tablet.

happy about any advice (or other approaches for multitracking, too!)

#2

Those X32 things are awesome!!

I would happily give it a good home if you’re throwing it out :joy_cat:

I use two MOTU 828 - so not much help otherwise sorry!

#3

Oh maybe I can offer another perspective - I tend to keep all the levels in the mixer the same and use other things to control mixing of levels i.e. if I have a voice in the modular I would like to be quieter I reduce the level in the voice itself rather than the mixer.

This keeps my hands and mind in the modular - where I prefer them and think they should be!

#4

thanks @anon83620728! appreciate that tip… i do how ever need an “overview” of channels; quick access to mutes and that kind of stuff… also have some other instruments in use that need a(n external) mixer.

X32 in indeed incredible … i really, really like it – but after a year and a bit, i’ve noticed i really miss faders and buttons (have returned to my completely run-down yamaha 01v :)). it’s weird – it appears as if there’s really no “perfect” solution.

as for sale: i am seriously considering to sell it, actually. even if it’s for buying the x32 producer edition. if you’re interested, let’s get in touch.

#5

I’ve used various approaches. Lately, I’ve been just using an analog desk and capturing two-track, which has trade-offs; less flexibility, but that’s not without it’s pluses–it forces you to make decisions and as has been observed, decisions make music. The other way I’ve done it is by using multiple tracks, and run into MOTU devices (as @anon83620728). The advantage of this is discrete multi-track recordings, the disadvantage is greater administrative overhead in terms of having to set up session files for the particular circumstance, and sometimes the creative options can get paralyzing. In the multi-track approach, I’ve generally used inline switches to take tracks in and out, specifically I’ve been using a few KP3s for inline effects and also for muting via the mic/line switch.

I’ve never been able to make a session template file that I found useful for more than a couple sessions, as my approach tends to evolve over time.

I’m favoring two-track these days, but that could change again. :slight_smile: I have been using a cheap Samson mixer, but it has some output problems so I picked up a Behringer X1622, which is similar but has slightly more modern effects options, notably tap-tempo. Makes dub-style mixing reasonably straightforward.

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#6

I’m just using the 6 track recorder. My only modular externals are a dsi pro 2 and an enigiser and I use a Veils to bring them up to modular level. 301 has even more gain when needed. So staying away from external mixer and soundcard seems lile a great idea at the moment.

#7

Maybe your wishes have been answered?

https://www.zoom-na.com/products/production-recording/live-sound-recording/zoom-livetrak-l-12

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#8

Looks like it might be time to sell the Mackie for this LiveTrak L-12

#9

That’s very interesting - found a discussion on Elektronauts where the only comment is ‘wish it did more than 4 tracks via usb’ so probably worth checking carefully before committing!

Still… it’s great to see something like this appearing on the market!

edit: Also Synthopia folks complaining about no midi / sync!

Why is it all these things get so close but no one ever really nails it completely?

#10

Seeing that LiveTrak L-12 may not prove to be ideal, can someone offer any feedback on how this PreSonus device compares? StudioLive AR16 USB | PreSonus

#11

thanks for all the input, folks! really appreciated!

i’ve checked the specs – it does appear to multitrack all its tracks. how ever, auxes are missing :sob: very close to being perfect.

i am now toying with the idea of getting an Allen & Heath QU 16 (or QU PAC, if i decide to live with the built-in touchscreen. it def. excells over the X32 rack in having jack inputs! :slight_smile: ). it’s not really that small of a desk, but seems pretty capable!

#12

No direct experience with that particular device. I do have a couple of Presonus products - a Firepod and an Audiobox 1818VSL. I can say I’ve generally been happy with them - solid performers. I think the preamps in that one are the same as the 1818VSL. They have a lot of headroom and are very clean - no strong coloration.

That particular model doesn’t seem to have MIDI unless I missed it - if that is one of the Zoom limitations that had you concerned.

#13

it sounds like the Soundcraft MTK Signature desks would be perfect for you. I use the 22MTK.

#14

Yeah I nearly pulled the trigger on one of these…

#15

wow! totally didn’t have those on my radar! what a great advice, thanks!
so much wishing there was an MTK version between 22 and 12, but i may actually settle with the later.

#16

I do believe these look fully featured - nice find!! Wish I had the room for one :slight_smile:

#17

Yes I recommend getting the 22. The way the routing works you may need to use some of the channels as returns. Also note that the signal path to the individual DAW channels is straight after the pre-amp which means pre-EQ and fade. This actually works very well as you can use VSTs in the DAW as channel inserts. I suggest downloading the manual and looking at the signal path diagrams closely. For me now it’s integral to my workflow and I love it.

#18

So I have finally given in, I bought a mixer… it’s gone on my credit card because a deal came up I simply couldn’t refuse (I mean stupid good!) and I got one of these:

Yes… it’s HUGE! But it actually fits in my space really nicely and oh my… oh my… I am in love!!

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#19

This Presonus desk is the BOMB!

Just got around to importing Friday nights jam sessions (recorded with one click in Capture 2 - itself a massive bonus) into Studio One and it pulls all the mixer settings in a Mix Scene into the Studio One project - it sounds identical to the live recording as far as I can make out and it also has a stereo reference recording too - this is unprecedented to my knowledge and totally eliminates all the faff of recording pre-fades and without the desk FX (which is what you want to do!) and having to redo all that work setting up the mix again - magic :smiley:

The one thing it hasn’t done is capture my life performance on the desk, so mutes, fades, FX etc… over time are not there, but literally everything else is. There’s possibly a easy way to do this too… still exploring and it feels like a mountain to climb.

It’s a pleasure to play… I am one very happy wiggler at the moment :slight_smile:

The days of Ableton Live may be numbered…

edit: here’s the persons article on scene capture for further clarification of this feature:

I’m so impressed!!

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#20

FWIW: I’ve taken my physical mixer and put it to the side for now. I’m using the Expert Sleepers ES-8 USB audio interface connected to the ES-3 and ES-6. With this I have 10 audio/CV inputs and 16 audio/CV outputs. While that handles audio duties for the modular I/O side of things, my computer’s primary audio interface is the Universal Audio Apollo Twin Duo. The two devices are bound together using ASIO4ALL - I’m on Windows 10 and that’s the best solution we have to bind interfaces.

All of this communication is managed within my DAW Bitwig. At the moment I have the ports mapped for 6 mono ins and 2 stereo ins. The 16 outs will be used for CV, but right now they go under utilized. When my rig get’s turned on so does the DAW and fairly quickly I start recording the tracks that I have audio going to it. I love that the team at Bitwig have made it a priority to have CV units in the DAW synced to my rig and I’m hoping that the new Ableton LInk feature in Bitwig will let me configure my Surface Book as a touch interface synced to my main computer where I’m recording and my rig - I like options.

Using the Ableton Push for convenience and so I don’t have to interact with the computer when I’m on the rig, I have track arming, VST choice and remote control, and some midi controls configured through it. Thanks to Jürgen Moßgraber who wrote some great drivers to act between Bitwig and the Push.

Between the Expert Sleepers interfaces and the rig I’m using Erogenous Tones Levit8’s to modulate the signal as it enters the chain. I also have a Planar I occasionally patch between the audio signal before it heads to my computer and I’m looking at adding 8 channels of mute with 2 Mutation modules.

From the Apollo Twin Duo I take Line 3 & 4 and feed them into In3 & In4 on the ER-301 and record the stereo feed using the 6-Track Recorder only triggering it when I feel the audio is coming together, otherwise I have the 6 mono’s and 2 stereo’s right there on my harddrive.

What I love about this relationship is that I’m able to use my Fab-Filter EQ immediately per channel or bring up a Valhalla reverb, The Glue, or Crusher-X and while I love my Erbe Verbe and Dual Looping Delay I don’t have the ability in Eurorack to manage individual FX on 10 different channels simultaneously.

While I’ve only dipped my toes into the next function it was intriguing to think where it might go. Because I have the mixed stereo feeds going into the ER-301’s 6-Track Recorder I set up a Looper on another track to make a mono sample of In3 to bring in what was being played as another element as I move the patch in another direction.

What might I do differently? I love what I see with the WMD Performance Mixer, Mutes, Stereo Expander, and the upcoming DB25 connector. This paired with the Behringer XR18 Digital Mixer but still feeding a DAW would be nice for having built in panning, mutes, and sliders.

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